ChicagoJack Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Hi All, I've been researching the purchase of window tinting for my new car. Seems there are a few pro installers that are not big fans of 3M Crystalline and Spectra PhotoSync, or at least will voice a preference for Huper. Critics have voiced the following : Spectra PhotoSync 1. The superior TSER digits (see list below) are not believable, and or not independently verified. 2. The underlying "'light adaptive" technology is of minimal value to begin with, reacts slowly, and might only last 5 years or so. 3M Crystalline 1. Not especially scratch resistant. Regarding Those Huper "Durability" Videos So ... I'm just your average Joe Consumer and happy to view any product with a skeptical eye. But when I bring that same skepticism to the idea that Huper Optic is more durable, I can't seem to find much convincing evidence for that idea either. There are a few YouTube videos which attempt to demonstrate the durability of Huper. But they are so poorly executed, that the whole premise seems questionable. One video is comparing 3M Prestige to Huper, which is apples to oranges because Prestige is for residential windows. Another video shows a guy using a scratchy pad on both Huper and Cyrstalline, but is he applying even pressure to both? Seems like the results could be easily manipulated if one were so inclined. Help Please Would appreciate help sifting through these three choices, (Huper, Crystalline, PhotoSync) help me sort fact from fiction Sorted in descending order, with most effective heat reduction technology at top. Ranking determined by comparing TSER (Total Solar Energy Rejection) to VLT (Visible Light Transmitted).#1VLT = 32 | TSER = 79 … TSER = Spectra Photosync SPH35VLT = 44 | TSER = 71 … TSER = Spectra Photosync SPH45VLT = 55 | TSER = 67 … TSER = Spectra Photosync SPH55VLT = 66 | TSER = 64 … TSER = Spectra Photosync SPH65VLT = 75 | TSER = 58 … TSER = Spectra Photosync SPH75PhotoSync® - Prestige Film Technologies#2VLT = 39 | TSER = 60 … 3M Crystalline 40VLT = 60 | TSER = 53 … 3M Crystalline 60VLT = 69 | TSER = 50 … 3M Crystalline 70VLT = 86 | TSER = 34 … 3M Crystalline 90http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/662303O/3mtm-crystalline-automotive-window-films-brochure.pdf#3VLT = 06 | TSER = 75 … Huper Optik Ceramic 05VLT = 15 | TSER = 73 … Huper Optik Ceramic 15VLT = 21 | TSER = 68 … Huper Optik Ceramic 20VLT = 30 | TSER = 63 … Huper Optik Ceramic 30VLT = 34 | TSER = 61 … Huper Optik Ceramic 35VLT = 40 | TSER = 55 … Huper Optik Ceramic 40VLT = 52 | TSER = 50 … Huper Optik Ceramic 50VLT = 60 | TSER = 43 … Huper Optik Ceramic 60VLT = 71 | TSER = 48 … Huper Optik Ceramic 70https://huperoptikusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/HuperOptiks_Ceramics.pdf#4VLT = 05 | TSER = 65 … Formula One Pinnacle 05VLT = 18 | TSER = 61 … Formula One Pinnacle 15VLT = 33 | TSER = 57 … Formula One Pinnacle 30VLT = 43 | TSER = 53 … Formula One Pinnacle 40VLT = 54 | TSER = 49 … Formula One Pinnacle 50http://www.formulaone.com/pdf/FormulaOneSpecSheet.pdf#5VLT = 10 | TSER = 63 … Madico Wincos 10VLT = 23 | TSER = 59 … Madico Wincos 20VLT = 33 | TSER = 57 … Madico Wincos 30VLT = 50 | TSER = 51 … Madico Wincos 45VLT = 66 | TSER = 49 … Madico Wincos 60VLT = 75 | TSER = 45 … Madico Wincos 70VLT = 89 | TSER = 23 … Madico Wincos 90http://www.madico.com/wp-content/uploads/Madico-Automotive-Spec-Sheet.pdf#6VLT = 04 | TSER = 66 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 05VLT = 18 | TSER = 62 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 20VLT = 32 | TSER = 58 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 30VLT = 38 | TSER = 56 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 38VLT = 42 | TSER = 53 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 42VLT = 46 | TSER = 52 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 46VLT = 51 | TSER = 51 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 50VLT = 70 | TSER = 49 … Global QDP Ceramic Charcoal 70http://www.globalwindowfilms.com/pdf/qdp-ceramic-films-specifications.pdf#7VLT = 06 | TSER = 59 … SunTek CarbonXP 5VLT = 16 | TSER = 56 … SunTek CarbonXP 18VLT = 33 | TSER = 53 … SunTek CarbonXP 35 VLT = 40 | TSER = 50 … SunTek CarbonXP 45VLT = 53 | TSER = 48 … SunTek CarbonXP 55VLT = 64 | TSER = 44 … SunTek CarbonXP 70VLT = 80 | TSER = 44 … SunTek CarbonXP 80http://www.suntekfilms.com/files/SunTek-Window-Films-automotive-specsheet.pdf#8VLT = 17 | TSER = 54 … Johnson InsulatR 20VLT = 33 | TSER = 50 … Johnson InsulatR 35VLT = 43 | TSER = 46 … Johnson InsulatR 45VLT = 65 | TSER = 50 … Johnson InsulatR 70VLT = 76 | TSER = 42 … Johnson InsulatR 80VLT = 82 | TSER = 18 … Johnson InsulatR 85http://www.johnsonwindowfilms.com/automotive-products/insulatir/#9VLT = 05 | TSER = 60 … Llumar Charcoal CTX 05VLT = 18 | TSER = 55 … Llumar Charcoal CTX 15VLT = 33 | TSER = 51 … Llumar Charcoal CTX 30VLT = 38 | TSER = 50 … Llumar Charcoal CTX 35VLT = 43 | TSER = 43 … Llumar Charcoal CTX 40VLT = 54 | TSER = 40 … Llumar Charcoal CTX 50http://w3.llumar.com/pdf/en/LLumarAutoSpecsUS.pdf#10VLT = 09 | TSER = 57 … 3M Color Stable 5VLT = 19 | TSER = 51 … 3M Color Stable 20VLT = 39 | TSER = 40 … 3M Color Stable 35VLT = 52 | TSER = 35 … 3M Color Stable 50http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/662305O/3mtm-color-stable-automo-tivewindow-films-brochure.pdf#11VLT = 10 | TSER = 51 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 10VLT = 20 | TSER = 49 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 20VLT = 34 | TSER = 43 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 30VLT = 43 | TSER = 40 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 40VLT = 64 | TSER = 37 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 60VLT = 73 | TSER = 37 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 70VLT = 76 | TSER = 40 … Solar Guard Ultra Performace 75http://www.solargard.com/product/ultra-performance/#12VLT = 05 | TSER = 47 … Llumar Charcoal ATC 05VLT = 18 | TSER = 44 … Llumar Charcoal ATC 15VLT = 23 | TSER = 39 … Llumar Charcoal ATC 20VLT = 38 | TSER = 35 … Llumar Charcoal ATC 35VLT = 43 | TSER = 33 … Llumar Charcoal ATC 40VLT = 59 | TSER = 26 … Llumar Charcoal ATC 50http://w3.llumar.com/pdf/en/LLumarAutoSpecsUS.pdf #13VLT = 08 | TSER = 46 … SunTek Standard Series 05VLT = 20 | TSER = 40 … SunTek Standard Series 20VLT = 38 | TSER = 38 … SunTek Standard Series 35VLT = 41 | TSER = 34 … SunTek Standard Series 40VLT = 50 | TSER = 29 … SunTek Standard Series 50VLT = 70 | TSER = 26 … SunTek Standard Series 70http://www.suntekfilms.com/files/ind_auto_Standard.pdfVideo Links:Huper Optic Vs 3M Cystalline (EVS Motors, Feb 2013) Huper Optic Vs. 3M Prestige (Naples Tint Company, March 2016)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qU3YH9ERtgSunTek CXP vs 3M Crystalline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamicATL Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 We were a Huper Dealer and now a 3M dealer. I personally prefer 3M Crystalline over Huper Ceramic. I recently redid one of my vehicles from Huper Ceramic to 3M Crystalline and I feel a difference. I also like the coloring better too versus the reflective look of Huper Ceramic. As far as Ceramics go, I believe Huper has the absolute best quality and technology. However, I would place Crystalline above a Ceramic window film. Durability wise, we have not had an issue with Crystalline. In the past the dye was added to the exterior of the film because Crystalline was originally made to be a laminate for Audi. This has been corrected and we personally tried scratching it the same in that old video and did not get that result or anything near it. My guess would be the testing is done with old samples or fake samples from China. As far as Photosync goes, there are too many unanswered questions about the film. One problem is the photochromic technology does not last forever. I would say expect 6 months of full change which will reduce by the 1 year mark. Getting closer to the 2 year mark, it will be stuck on one shade. The technology is the same as Transition lenses which has the same issue. Another problem is the lack of testing on the film from an outside company. All major players have the NFRC test their films to ensure the manufacturers numbers are accurate. This helps ensure the films are tested on a level playing field atleast as much as possible. Prestige does not do this with their films and even states this on their spec sheets. Some independent people have done testing and feel the numbers don't add up too. The manufacturer approached Huper first to sell/license the technology, but was turned down. So they started Prestige to sell the film. Other downside is it has not been around long enough to say if the film will last period. So not saying it is a bad film, just too many secrets behind it. Out of all the options Suntek CXP I would rank last. Horrible scratching issues (even during installation) and low angle haze is ungodly. Llumar CTX/Formula One Pinnacle are great films that are probably the best all around films. They just don't offer the performance that Huper or Crystalline offers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamicATL Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Also wanted to give an example of inflated or flat out fake numbers. The link is to a film called BlackMax which is a rebox film that is sold by a dealer in Texas. If you check the numbers, it states has 94% TSER at 5% shade and 80% TSER at 70% shade. These numbers can't get anymore fake, but anyone can just make up numbers and post them. This is why having the NFRC test the window film is important. http://blackmaxusa.com/products/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midtown Houston Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Average Joe .....I don't believe it...you got more info then my sale guy ever seen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintguy1980 Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 We were a Huper Dealer and now a 3M dealer. I personally prefer 3M Crystalline over Huper Ceramic. I recently redid one of my vehicles from Huper Ceramic to 3M Crystalline and I feel a difference. I also like the coloring better too versus the reflective look of Huper Ceramic. As far as Ceramics go, I believe Huper has the absolute best quality and technology. However, I would place Crystalline above a Ceramic window film. Durability wise, we have not had an issue with Crystalline. In the past the dye was added to the exterior of the film because Crystalline was originally made to be a laminate for Audi. This has been corrected and we personally tried scratching it the same in that old video and did not get that result or anything near it. My guess would be the testing is done with old samples or fake samples from China. As far as Photosync goes, there are too many unanswered questions about the film. One problem is the photochromic technology does not last forever. I would say expect 6 months of full change which will reduce by the 1 year mark. Getting closer to the 2 year mark, it will be stuck on one shade. The technology is the same as Transition lenses which has the same issue. Another problem is the lack of testing on the film from an outside company. All major players have the NFRC test their films to ensure the manufacturers numbers are accurate. This helps ensure the films are tested on a level playing field atleast as much as possible. Prestige does not do this with their films and even states this on their spec sheets. Some independent people have done testing and feel the numbers don't add up too. The manufacturer approached Huper first to sell/license the technology, but was turned down. So they started Prestige to sell the film. Other downside is it has not been around long enough to say if the film will last period. So not saying it is a bad film, just too many secrets behind it. Out of all the options Suntek CXP I would rank last. Horrible scratching issues (even during installation) and low angle haze is ungodly. Llumar CTX/Formula One Pinnacle are great films that are probably the best all around films. They just don't offer the performance that Huper or Crystalline offers. Can't add much to what DA said above... other than: I am not a fan of Crystalline only from a perspective of exterior view color appearance. Internal view out it has a nice earth-tone color but the 40 has a bluish look when looking at the car from outside. The other note I would add is that to my knowledge no automotive films' performance values are NFRC confirmed or rated. You could get an idea of Crystalline's performance if 3M's Prestige architectural film was NFRC rated (CR and PR are close related cousin films). 3M Prestige is not to be confused with Prestige PhotoSync either. Some in the Asian market have a tendency to utilize existing market names when naming their products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamicATL Posted August 20, 2016 Report Share Posted August 20, 2016 Just to clarify for the OP, the two main films in question has been certified by the NFRC which is Huper Ceramic (exact same film as flat glass version) and 3M Prestige (starts as the exact same film as Crystalline with minor changes at the end of the process). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest scottj Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 I was an "early adopter" when I had crystalline 70 installed on my q45 windshield in early 2008- just sold the car last December,so a total of 8 years use,in Maryland,parked outside 24/7- the film looked like new still and performed so well in heat reduction,I had my new SUV done in Crystalline 70 for the windshield and crystalline 50 for the driver/passenger side glass without even considering any other film.My only question is should I have spent the bucks to do crystalline 50 on all the remaining privacy glass on the vehicle,not sure the improvement over the dark factory glass would be cost effective or not from a heat blocking viewpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintguy1980 Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Much of today's (or since around 2008) factory privacy glass is already effectively reducing solar energy. That said, privacy glass performs in an infrared and visible light absorptive manner whereby, Crystalline reflects (and absorbs) the majority of the solar spectrum range that carries the most intense infrared light. This is the part of solar energy we 'feel' in the immediate. Tough to say whether it would be cost effective since infrared makes up only half the solar energy responsible for heat build up once through the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamicATL Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 IMO I wouldn't spend Crystalline money just to do the front doors and windshield. At that point you are wanting maximum coverage which would mean tinting it all. If doing the front doors and windshield, I would do a Ceramic film like CTX or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChicagoJack Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Hi DynamicAppearance, Smartie2Shoes, and ScottJ. Some very informative replies here, big thanks! ;) Q: Can anybody describe if there is any slight color hue (off neutral grey) to 3M Crystalline in any of the shade variants? I am thinking probably go with 40 on all three sides, then either 90 or 70 on the windshield. If there's more neutral shades in Huper Ceramic, or Photosync, that might be a consideration for me. I wouldn't mind a slight blue tint, but slight greenish would be less preferable. I know greens and blues are close cousins on the color wheel, so might be slicing the distinction pretty thin here. -Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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